Whistle Signals:

rlynch
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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby rlynch » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:12 am

This seems intuitive to me:

One blast - Look at me
Continuous whistling - Serious trouble
We would leave home in the morning and could play all day, as long as we were back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us and no one minded!

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby AndrewR » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:39 pm

Yep!

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higgins2510
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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby higgins2510 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:23 am

Start including this in communications stuff in briefs so, unless someone has something to say against it?

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby AndrewR » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:42 am

Agreed then.

rlynch wrote:This seems intuitive to me:

One blast - Look at me
Continuous whistling - Serious trouble

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby KatieF » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:56 am

Shouldn't 'one blast' mean incoming train? :?:

My years of watching Thomas the Tank Engine have me all in a tizzy. What if I 'look <at the person>' instead of getting out of the way of a train?
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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby Tom » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:08 pm

If the club were to invest in a set of tin whistles then perhaps specific types of incidents could be indicated by a certain tune. This would require some investment of time in order for all club members to learn these tunes but it would rule out the confusion which could be caused by the other systems suggested.

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby Seaanie » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:17 pm

Jesus lads this is steaming pile of shit idea. And its all for what purpose exactly? Hand signals and paddle signals should be used when there is line of sight. So appart from declaring danger/emergency that leaves "Attention! Look at me!"? If someone isn't paying attention, or isn't aware of upstream and downstream you've got a problem that may not be resolved with a whistle....

Forget about whistles totally unless somebody is in real danger.

AndrewR wrote:This leads to hesitancy about whether to use to whistle or not where a situation appears to be under control, then it degenerates.
What proof of this is there? I've never had a debrief EVER that found that someone should have used there whistle and didn't.

AndrewR wrote:Take the photo below on the rock garden. I'd blow my whistle once here to alert the rest of the guys downstream in case the situation here got worse. They were already running up the bank by the time the guys got themselves free. But a situation like this very well could have got worse.
Yes...thats a text book reason to blow your whistle...its completely different to a "Attention! Look at me!" blast.

In my book if you use your whistle and someone isn't in danger, your an ass hat misusing emergency equipment. People who use whistles for day today non-emergency communication shit dilute its use in a real emergency (boy who cried wolf style). If you cant understand why lets use a flares for an example. Why dont we just use one flare to get peoples attention and 3 for an emergency...

If you go abroad (or event to Kerry) and you use your whistle, people will rush to you...if its just to say hi to someone in your group, well... I can see them not liking that.

PS. if you still think it is a good idea I would challenge you to post on UKRGB or IWW asking for peoples input about it.

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby Tom » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:20 pm

So you're against my tin whistle idea, Seanie?

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby Seaanie » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:21 pm

Tom wrote:So you're against my tin whistle idea, Seanie?

Not at all, it makes about as much sense as Andrews idea.

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby AndrewR » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:46 pm

Good to have ya back Seanie :D


Seanie wrote:Hand signals and paddle signals should be used when there is line of sight


Hand and paddle signals are silent forms of communication. I don't personally have a sixth sense to everything that goes on. Like I said a short blast can alert the whole group immediately to a potential situation and stop it escalating.

As for misusing safety equipment, I'd have thought you'd have a bit more sympathy to their use then that after working at RiverRun for a couple of seasons!

Im not saying go mad using your whistle, its still a last resort,. but use it in a situation where it is necessary to grab the attention of others immediately where a simple whoop whoop wont work.

Seanie wrote:What proof of this is there? I've never had a debrief EVER that found that someone should have used there whistle and didn't.


I have! Our personal experiences are obviously quite different buddy!

In my book if you use a whistle you must justify it at debrief time. You are not an ass hat, you are somebody communicating something urgent to the group that needs to be dealt with!

I'd rather impeccable group communication by using a short blast then risking a delayed reaction. Situations can often arise that aren't at first emergency situations but can degenerate into one. This hopefully will reduce the chances of that happening in NUIGkc.

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby higgins2510 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:37 pm

Seanie wrote:Jesus lads this is steaming pile of shit idea. And its all for what purpose exactly? Hand signals and paddle signals should be used when there is line of sight. So appart from declaring danger/emergency that leaves "Attention! Look at me!"? If someone isn't paying attention, or isn't aware of upstream and downstream you've got a problem that may not be resolved with a whistle....


Often line of site can be kept between the whole group, but that dosn't mean every person can see the situation at hand, and it might take/waste time for poeple to pass it down along the line chineese whisper style, when they could be helping with the situation... one blast of a whistle could alert everyone that they should be expecting a situation that they may need to help with, eliminating delays, increasing reaction times.

Seanie wrote:What proof of this is there? I've never had a debrief EVER that found that someone should have used there whistle and didn't.

We actually had an incident on the Bunduff recently, and while in the end, the way things panned out, there was no need for a whistle... but for a while at the start of the incident, from what I gathered afterwards, someone blowing a whistle might have brought more instructors to the scene sooner, which if things had gone differently, might have made a difference.

Seanie wrote: If you cant understand why lets use a flares for an example. Why dont we just use one flare to get peoples attention and 3 for an emergency...


I have no experience with flares, but to me that comparison
Seanie wrote:is steaming pile of shit idea


Seanie wrote:If you go abroad (or event to Kerry) and you use your whistle, people will rush to you...if its just to say hi to someone in your group, well... I can see them not liking that.


Can you please quote whoever said it was a good idea to say hi to someone in your group? I don't recall what people have already said in previous posts, and need you to quote absolutely everything that you are refering to cause otherwise I won't understand what your talking about.


[/quote]

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby higgins2510 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:59 pm

Taking the piss aside, I fully agree with you that whistle blasts should be kept to situations where they are required, and I am still not in favor of it being used in the original incident which lead to this disucssion, there were other ways of sorting it, and it wasn't that big a deal to resort to a whistle - and you should never bring new communcations systems into a group situation on the fly like that, it should be clearly stated in briefs. I also see that in situations which might include multiple groups (such as a day on the Boluisce when there is a release scheduled), particular care should be taken with whistles - this can be accomodated at briefs handy enough. However, I do think that there exists two different types of situations which a whistle would be useful.

One is one where the incident should be manageable, but has the potential to deteriorate, and it would be very desirable to have your whole group (even those who can't currently see you/the incident) on alert to the danger, and you don't want to be pissing around with hand signals trying to explain what's happened cause you'd much prefer to be managing the incident. I would see a single whistle blast as being useful

The other is a situation which has already/is about to deteriorate quickly. Any and all help, even from any other groups who happpen to be on the river would be desirable... in other words, shit 'will potentially'/'is about to'/'has already' hit the fan - blow the whistle to fuck, and blow it a few times to be sure. In this situation, anything that is not a single distinct whistle blast would be suitable.

As for how other groups might react to a whistle... I can't speak for other people, but I reckon if I heard a single whistle blast on a river that came from a source outside the group I was paddling with, it would put me on edge and have me on alert for the next while, I'd probably investigate the source if possible and I recognised which direction the blast radiated from if I figured it out from a single blast, but I wouldn't go panicking. Loads of whistling on the other hand would have me investigating as quicly as I could.

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby Seaanie » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:22 am

I'm confused... the latest examples in favor of using whistles use terms like "stop it escalating", "potential incidents", "urgent", etc. Which is fine to use a whistle in my book. But its described as "Attention! Look at me!" in the first post. And the first example could be interpreted in a way didn't seem urgent or have much potential to go bad, where as it might have. It might be worth clearing this part of it up.

It's my experience on the Ottawa that makes me feel so strongly. Some days you wouldn't know if someone was in trouble and needed help or if it was just someone that thought blowing their whistles every 5 minutes was a good idea. My guess is that if you blew a whistle on a Saturday at McCoys, no one would even bat an eyelid and put it down to WT guide your owns.

Maybe we could all save our time debating if ye could just hold off the with the whistle stuff and tell higgins to wake the fuck up when he's leading? Higgins, the neck can enable your head to turn enabling you to look other directions, try it every now and again. :-D

Andrew, I'd love if your could state your case on UKRGB/IWW and see what feedback the rest of the paddling community has to say.

It's good to be back!

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby AndrewR » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:26 pm

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... s&start=30


Heres a thread on ukrgb. Pretty balanced actually, some in favour and some not in favour before it goes off topic....

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Re: Whistle Signals:

Postby higgins2510 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:55 pm

Ha, touché Seanie :D